A Note from Aline
During this interview, I sat quietly while Jenn explored Jane's background and work. They talked about Emilie Conrad's pioneering spirit at Continuum.
Emilie's work is not widely known. She lived in Los Angeles and was my teacher for many years. Her work with the body offered a life-changing paradigm and transformed my understanding of what it means to be embodied. I consider NeuroAffective Touch to be in the Continuum lineage.
To briefly orient those unfamiliar with Emilie's work, she used breath, sound, movement, and sensation to explore the essential and primary states of consciousness that underlie personal and cultural influences and are common to all life forms. Sensation becomes the guide for awakening the active principles of the life force that feed and nurture self-renewal and healing.
If curious, visit the Continuum Teachers Association or the Continuum Movement website.
Jenn: Jane, you are a somatic movement therapist, biodynamic craniosacral therapist, conscious breathwork practitioner, SEP, NATouch practitioner, and co-lead assistant for the in-person NeuroAffective Touch training in London, UK! Your work focuses on the connection between the breath, somatic patterns, and fluid body dynamics. You also teach Authentic Movement and Continuum, created by Emilie Conrad, whose work greatly influenced the development of NeuroAffective Touch.
I'm always interested to hear what initiates a person on their path. What led you to undertake your first somatic training?
Jane: When I first began, the word "somatic" was not used much. For me, somatic is the living body—a process with fluid running through it.
The first thing I explored was working with conscious breath, which launched my journey! I was training to do Integrative Art Psychotherapy, so I integrated art psychotherapy with Voice Dialogue and breath and called it Integrative Breath Therapy. This was about 32 years ago!
Moving on, I trained in craniosacral therapy, and for the first time, my system settled. Something in me learned to rest deeply.
Then I heard about the work of Emilie Conrad at Continuum. I worked with Robert Littman in the UK, and Continuum felt like home. I discovered that the way I'd been working with breath was a bit too prescribed. It felt too much like you were" doing to" yourself.
Jenn: According to someone else's mold?
Jane: Yes! This was a good thing to discover. I explored Continuum with Robert for four years, and then he said, "You should go to L.A. and meet Emilie." I did. And that was the most extraordinary experience.
When I met Emilie, I felt she touched the feminine on a deeper level than I'd ever experienced in myself—I feel touched right now, speaking of it!—a layer of the feminine beyond personal wounding. I didn't have words for it, but something in me was met, touched, and awakened—maybe all of it.
I was a little scared of Emile, to be honest…she was completely passionate. She was working with fast and slow rhythms along with music. Things would change quickly. I loved that about Emilie's work. That's partly what I love about NeuroAffective Touch: it's a living, open, developing process... It's an alive inquiry that grows and develops in each of us.
Jenn: Absolutely. Could you share how Continuum and fluid body dynamics inform or underlie your work?
Jane: As a biodynamic craniosacral therapist, my world was already fluid, but always within a structure and a system. With Emilie's work, I learned to be a fluid whole.
We experimented using sound—or vibration—into the breath, and these sound vibrations awakened the tissues all over the body. We would offer the body a sound. It would open a space, and something moved or reorganized in that space. It was extraordinary! It turned out that the cranial work was too static for me. I wanted to move! Here, I could work with the breath, play with sound, see what emerged in movement, and allow the movement to unfold. It was layered…and then we would start the cycle again.
Different types of breath create different impulses in various areas of the body. Bringing something new onto the breath—either by shaping your mouth, shifting your tone, or finding a new sound—naturally extends the exhale, allowing the tissue to reorganize itself. Rather than saying, "See if you can slow your exhale," if you offer something actively creative, the body responds! It was a beautiful way of shifting from what I call "up" energy and dropping into one's self a little more. It creates a flow in the fluids, and then, we can rest in that flow—you allow the fluid to express itself through whichever body system, organ, or bone needs it.
We Are Movement
Jenn: I've read some of Emilie's book, Life on Land, and saw a fantastic video where she demonstrates the Cosmic Anatomy. What I experienced recently in Aline's in-person Touch Immersion in St Louis was looking at the throat, the larynx, the remarkable phenomenon of the vocal cords, and how the breath, with sound, can send vibrations into the viscera. It ties into the nervous system—our voice constricts if we're bracing or vigilant. I felt it was a beautiful feedback loop to experience. As you intone, you feel the vibration of your voice inside your body, and it massages your tissues.
Jane: Absolutely. One of Emilie's sayings is, "We are movement." It's not something we do. It's not separate from us. We are movement. So, breath is movement. Breath supports movement, but movement also supports breath. When you talk about feeling that inner massage, sound touches the inner body in places you couldn't reach with a hands-on massage.
Jenn: Continuum clarifies the difference between functional and organic movement, which also informs NeuroAffective Touch. Functional movement is an "outside-in" doing according to what's prescribed. For example, sitting at a desk and typing is a functional movement. But if I was in a Continuum class, or working with a movement therapist, I imagine it would open me up to organic movement.
Jane: This reminds me of sitting in a studio in New York in a Continuum class. Emilie had just discovered one of her later breaths. She would ask bodyworkers to touch her so they could feel what was happening in her body, then share their perception with the class. In this case, I was holding her, and she was talking, so I could feel her tissue organizing itself. It felt normal at first…then she did a tonal breath, tapping into a fluid space. It suddenly felt like my hands were on something fluid. And then, she did the breath she called the blur breath, and she disappeared. Her tissue was neither fluid nor bracing—I felt I was holding potent space!
Jenn: How fascinating. Space—all that potential and presence!
Jane: Exactly. The personal history and the tissue had begun to "undo." It's part of the three anatomies Emilie developed. Cultural anatomy is our life experience, whether in our family, culture, or world culture. It shapes us and shows up in our protective bracing patterns, holding and breathing patterns. Primordial Anatomy is our bodies' inherent, fluid potential, like a stomach that knows what to do. Cosmic Anatomy is the environment from which we're not separate. It's large, and depending on where you place your attention, the environment shapes how you respond and move. These are some of what I draw on in my work.
Jenn: That is beautiful and clarifies what we're talking about. It becomes evident to me how Continuum would be beneficial to therapy clients. What it can be is for an individual human being to have their history unwind so their bracing can let go.
Jane: When I met Aline in Norway, she spoke about Continuum, and I could feel it. There's something about the quality of fluid presence—I feel it in people who embody Continuum. I'm not quite sure I can put this somatic presence into language. How do you bring language to that? But Emilie put names onto it with the three anatomies. They're all happening at the same time. I felt Aline wasn't just in one layer of the touch. There was resting into the fluid presence, inviting the potential of the fluid body, and an acknowledgment of the shaping, the patterning by the life story. So there's something very different when you're holding all that in your hands and offering input… Aline should speak to this!
Aline: I'm tearful right now because I wouldn't be able to say it as well as you, Jane. It is challenging to put language to these experiences. Emilie gave us a greater multi-dimensional container for holding our biological selves, extending from the physical to the cosmic. When we access the personal story—with which most of us identify—from the greater cosmic context, the personal can dissolve…and a beautiful experience of trusting life opens up. It's a consciousness much larger than our personal and cultural story, yet it does not ignore or minimize our individual and cultural stories.
Jane: Exactly. The personal story stays, and the cultural shaping stays—but without their limitations.
Jenn: The Diamond Approach says your personal history gets clarified. It doesn't disappear; you still remember it, but it's clarified in a way that allows your personal qualities to pour through and develop. It's like a pearl inside an oyster that takes shape through friction with the life around it—the seawater and the grit interacting.
Finding Ground
Jane: It's interesting how people find us and who enters our door. Whatever it is people are working with, we hold their emerging phenomena. I spend a lot of time teaching people how to yield, let their body weight be, and find ground.
In Scotland recently, I went to a talk by an artist who did an art piece where she carried a heavy stone across Norway. In it were two carved footprints. She would often put the stone down and stand in the footprints. She was carrying her ground with her. It was quite an extraordinary thing to do. It was a genuine inner journey that became a pilgrimage. It was amazing to me, because I spend a lot of time teaching people how to find their weight and guiding them through the somatics of that. This work is often developmental.
Jenn: Could you share a specific example of what it's like when someone finds their ground and how that shifts things?
Jane: That artist talked about how she felt so light, which is why she chose a heavy rock. That's often what it's like to find your ground. We work with movement, awareness, and presence, which are aspects of Authentic Movement. We wait for the impulse that wants to come through and witness its direct experience to get under the story. Often it comes as an unexpected, unexpressed gesture, or as something bound in the tissue. I am very much a somatic movement / trauma / NeuroAffective Touch practitioner. It's integrated because it's all part of the journey, not something done in one session.
I had a completely academic client and beautiful writer who, when I talked about feet, said, "I don't know what they are. Why are you talking about my feet?" As we pendulated between touch and dialogue, she found her capacity for expression. Her breath helped her notice when she left her body; over time, she found her body. When she found her body, she came to the healthy ground of her emotions and discovered she was absolutely terrified of her anger. It then turned out that when she embodied her anger, it wasn't anger at all—it was her capacity to express herself and feel her boundaries. As she found her muscles and bones, she simultaneously realized that her voice was coming from her body rather than just her mind.
Jenn: It obviously varies, but how would you help someone find their bones or muscles?
Jane: Let's do it. That's the best way.
In this short video, Jane guides us in a touch exploration.
Jane: The arm is quite good. You have the outer surface of the skin, the outer layer, and the skin is full of sensors, so you can feel that touch. Then, if you squeeze a little bit, you'll be touching different layers of skin. There are other receptors. The dermis has the nerves and glands, which you might feel. Then, if I squeeze a little bit, I begin to feel the connective tissue and muscle layer, and if I go in a bit more, I might touch the outer sensory layer of the bone. It's harder, and it has a different texture. It's firm, and it's dense. Do you feel that?
Jenn: I'll go closer to my wrist to feel it because my arm is a little chunky! But on the wrist, it's very easy.
Jane: Then you can feel the joints and the wrists. The bone joints are great to hold, and even on fingers, it's maybe easier to feel a bone in there. A friend of mine said, "Let's polish our bones. Let's give them a buff. Give them a good old buffing."
Jenn: Sounds like a qigong practice… bone marrow washing, I think it was.
Jane: Yes! He was doing Body-Mind Centering. It's giving the bones direct attention. When you feel bone, it responds differently than the skin.'
Jenn: It does help me feel my weight. When I feel the bone, it's like my skeleton's saying, "I'm here! In the very middle of your structure, that's me!" And that is grounding.
Jane: That is grounding. When you touch bone, it can feel more dense. Bone is not an energy that quickly comes and goes. If I'm doing touch work, I would maybe hold the joint. It's not something we do every day. But people do recognize it.
A Life-Enhancing Conversation
Jenn: You completed the NeuroAffective Touch Foundation Training in Oslo and are now the co-lead assistant in London. What inspired you to take on that role?
Jane: I like hanging out with people who have these kinds of conversations! I love the work; it integrates so much. I resonate with it a lot because it's a living conversation. There's a question of how to take this conversation out into the world. Why would one not want to be involved in this? It makes a difference for people. One of the things I hear when offering sessions is that it feels like a gentle way to meet some of our most challenging places—it's not always easy. The feedback is that it's integrative and gentle. Students and clients often say: "I get to know myself better." So, it's a life-enhancing conversation.
Jenn: You wrote: "We are not separate from our bodies. They are us." When I hear that, I think of how I was raised in an academic environment, although my father did biofeedback work. He was interested in the body-mind connection and wrote his dissertation on the galvanic skin response. In his practice, he helped people with migraines and anxiety, hooking them up to these big machines to help them make sense of what was going on inside them. When I hear you say that we are not separate from our bodies, that they are us, it's a huge relief to a part of me that thought, "I have to be just this brain." Aline calls it the encapsulated mind. That notion that "I'm very separate up here, and I have to survey my kingdom from my turret!"
There are so many ways of attuning to the body, of letting the mind receive the body's story as the mind learns to listen to the body. When my mind can hear my body, I intuitively know what I need to soothe myself or manage my anxiety. It comes from the inside out, in an organic way, rather than in this functional way that uses machines and medication. For me, it's been a freeing and liberating recognition.
Jane: I love what you said about developing that body-mind relationship. The mind is vital. We want it. And the body, too, its presence and awareness. Understanding how the body moves—how it expresses and responds—is communication. When you listen and dialogue with the body, you begin to be able to take care of it from the inner space rather than the outer, or from the mind trying to control it all. I feel that's a beautiful dialogue to develop. We don't know all that's here, and because we don't know, we have to engage, we have to listen. That story gets to be told, and whatever that unfolding is, at whatever pace, is the journey.
Jenn: Coming into the body can be an enjoyable journey. Many people have chronic pain conditions, yet once we sense the body's fluidity, it can open us up to change. Aline told me Emilie worked with paralyzed individuals, and when their connective tissue came online—obviously, the nervous system couldn't regrow—it opened possibilities for movement.
Jane: Emilie did work with people who were paralyzed. One of the Continuum teachers, Barbara Mindell, was paralyzed from the mid-torso down, but when she was moving on the floor, you would not have known she was paralyzed. Emilie also spoke about Eros and how much beauty we can experience. When there is trauma, the body-mind can no longer listen. Trauma becomes what's known. Yet as trauma releases, tolerance for pleasure or Eros begins to come into the tissue. It takes time, but it's a journey worth doing, even though it's not easy.
Aline: I am so thrilled, Jane, to hear you talk about the fluid body and Continuum. You have reminded me of the early days of Continuum when Emilie's deep creative process was emerging and how that impacted my young, unformed self. I'm grateful to have connected with you and discovered our common background. Continuum was genuinely life-changing.
Jane: Very much! Completely.
Aline: I am, in my own way, bringing Emilie's lineage through in NeuroAffective Touch.
Jenn: I'm thrilled to be part of these conversations and the field of this work as it unfolds and deepens. Thank you, Jane, for your time; it's been gratifying and beautiful.
Based in London, UK, Jane is on faculty with the Circles of Four Programme for the Discipline of Authentic Movement and co-director for the Integrative Bodywork and Movement Therapy Programme (IBMT) in the UK and Europe. She has a background in Integrative Arts Psychotherapy and Biodynamic Craniosacral therapy and received her MA from UCLan in Somatic Dance and Connections to the Living Body. Mentored by Emilie Conrad, she was the first Continuum teacher in the UK in 2000.
